LA federal jury hears of bizarre interview with Palisades Fire suspect

LOS ANGELES (KESQ) - A federal arson investigator told a downtown jury today of a bizarre daylong pre-arrest interview with accused Palisades Fire arsonist Jonathan Rinderknecht in which the suspect expressed hatred of political leaders and predicted "They're gonna be in their castles and spaceships" while "we're all burning."   

Testifying on Thursday in downtown Los Angeles, Matt Beals of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said he eventually convinced Rinderknecht to accompany him and another agent to the Hidden Buddha clearing, the remote area near the Palisades' Summit neighborhood where they suspected the so-called Lachman Fire was set on New Year's Eve 2025, before smoldering underground for six days and then bursting into view as the deadly Palisades Fire.

During the disjointed, rambling interview, portions of which were played for the jury, Rinderknecht spoke of his resentment of the rich, the pharmaceutical industry, Elon Musk, federal food regulators, "the
administration'' and ``the people that rule the world.''   

Rinderknecht "was getting more emotional as he talked ... and defeated,'' Beals said, adding that the defendant ``was starting to cry'' as he spoke.   

"They set up a system that (is) unbalanced,'' Rinderknecht said on tape. ``This is what I disrupted."

Beals told the jury that Rinderknecht was inadvertently referring to the Lachman fire he is accused of having lit.   

Federal prosecutors wrapped up their case Thursday afternoon with a final witnesses -- the owner of the Reel Inn, a popular seafood restaurant on the Pacific Coast Highway that was leveled in the Palisades Fire on Jan. 7, 2025.

Andy Leonard showed the jury before-and-after photos of what he called the ``seafood shack'' he ran for 38 years. The popular eatery was pictured as a pile of rubble after the blaze. Leonard said he hoped to reopen someday.   

Defense attorney Steven Haney then put on his case for Rinderknecht's acquittal.  

With four witnesses on and off the stand within roughly an hour, Haney showed that two neighbors in the area of the fire heard noises around midnight on New Year's Eve 2025 and also on Jan. 7 but saw no fireworks. A college student whom Rinderknecht drove for 10 minutes in his Uber vehicle on the night of the Lachman Fire recalled the defendant as quiet and normal- seeming. And a Los Angeles Fire Department arson investigator said he responded to the Palisades Fire and had no knowledge of Rinderknecht's alleged involvement in the Lachman Fire six days earlier.

Closing arguments are expected Monday. The courthouse is closed Friday for the Juneteenth federal holiday.   

A dual French and U.S. citizen, 30-year-old Rinderknecht faces up to 45 years behind bars if found guilty of three arson counts: destruction of property by means of fire, arson affecting property used in interstate commerce, and timber set afire.   

The trial in Los Angeles federal court ended its second week Thursday.   

On Wednesday, a behavioral analyst specializing in arsonists told the jury that a thirst for ``societal revenge and excitement'' drove Rinderknecht to set what would become the most destructive wildfire in Los Angeles history.   

Dr. Kevin Kelm, a former special agent with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified that ``escalating anger'' and ``social isolation'' compelled Rinderknecht to set the Lachman Fire on New Year's Eve 2025, which smoldered underground before bursting into view six days later as the deadly Palisades Fire.   

Kelm said alleged arsonists such as Rinderknecht are driven by extreme frustration and anger, often leading to spontaneous acts of fire-setting prompted by a desire to seek revenge against the world.

"These individuals have a lot of things going wrong in their lives,'' Kelm told the jury. ``The opportunity to express revenge can be exciting to some arsonists."

The analyst said that in the period before the fire, Rinderknecht, then working as an Uber driver, was fixated on his problems and under mounting stress involving financial issues, a feeling of having no friends, and frustration at the disparity between the wealthy and others.

"These pressures continue to build and build until they decide to act,'' Kelm testified.

Haney, maintains that while his client was alone at the remote Hidden Buddha clearing where the Lachman Fire is thought to have begun at around midnight that night, the blaze was actually set by nearby fireworks and the Palisades Fire could have been lit on Jan. 7 by an unknown person.

Under cross examination from Haney on Wednesday, certified fire investigator Derek Hill said the Palisades Fire was a ``holdover'' fire from the earlier Lachman blaze. The Jan. 1 fire smoldered deep in the root structure under the soil for days before hurricane-force Santa Ana winds caused the underground fire to surface and spread above ground on Jan. 7.   

The most destructive wildfire in Los Angeles history, the Palisades Fire burned 23,448 acres and ruined much of the exclusive Pacific Palisades community, destroying about 6,800 structures and killing 12 people.   

Hill told jurors that investigators did not believe fireworks caused the Lachman Fire, although he said the possibility was explored early on and quickly dismissed.  

Instead, an ``incendiary device'' -- a green Bic lighter -- was discovered in Rinderknecht's car and was allegedly used by the defendant to start the smaller fire, Hill said.  

In his testimony, Kelm described Rinderknecht's apparent feelings of isolation and powerlessness while his ideas about society ``became more extreme'' in the lead-up to the fire.

``Other people back away... to the point where they just don't want to associate with him anymore,'' Kelm said of the defendant.   

Rinderknecht became obsessed with ``societal issues'' and focused on ``vigilantism,'' the analyst said, adding that the suspect frequently used ChatGPT to generate images showing the disparity between corporations and working people to reflect a ``dystopian'' view of the world.

Last week, one of Rinderknecht's Uber passengers testified that the defendant suggested while driving that politicians he doesn't agree with ``deserve to die.''

In pretrial hearings, U.S. District Judge Anne Hwang ruled that the defense may not attempt to shift the blame for the Palisades Fire to the L.A. Fire Department, which has been blamed for allegedly failing to completely extinguish the Lachman Fire.